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Admin2

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Reply with quote  #46 

When someone points a gun at another's head and said they never meant to kill actually assassinated the truth from any debates on the matter


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Bilko

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie

 

In my opinion and as they do not plan to change their strategy, there will be further innocent victims taken at the hands of the Police like Jean Charles de Menezes (RIP).

 

 

Of that there is no doubt Magpie, there were more before him and there will be more after him. The true fact of the matter is, the British police fire-arm units have all the professionalism and surveillance skills of the Trumpton police dept....In fact Hugh, Pew, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grub......would have been more professional and disciplined than the rag tag and bob-tale outfit detailed to look out for the fourth terrorist on the day Mendez was tragically gunned down. Bilko

 


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Reply with quote  #48 

Hi Bilko... thanks for your post.  Totally agree with the family's position, and with regards to an unacceptable apology for an unacceptable assination, even when it appears that he was restrained and in custody at the time of the shooting.  Here is the article:

De Menezes family reject PM apology

The Press Association Thursday March 9, 10:16 PM

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De Menezes family reject PM apology
Click to enlarge photo
The family of Jean Charles de Menezes, the innocent Brazilian man shot dead by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber, said they would never accept the apology offered by Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Speaking after a meeting with Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, three of Mr de Menezes cousins and a family friend said they hoped the Brazilian government's involvement would help break down barriers in their search for justice.

But Alex Pereira said: "I won't accept Blair's apology because he's killing people - he apologised but at the same time they will still carry on with their shoot-to-kill policy."

Mr de Menezes' cousin, Patrisia da Silva Armani, said through an interpreter she thought the short meeting with the Brazilian President was very productive.

"He said he would look at the case more closely and when he arrives in Brazil he will get their high lawyers to explain more about the case," she said.

She also said the President had promised he would send human rights representatives from Brazil to look at the mistakes the family believe were made and help to try to correct them.

"I'm very happy with the meeting, I'm sure after the meeting we can put more pressure on the case," she said through family friend Erionaldo da Silva.

The meeting at Heathrow airport followed talks between the Prime Minister and the Brazilian President which included trade and the death of Mr de Menezes.

Following that meeting, Mr Blair offered his "deepest regrets" to the family of Mr de Menezes, but said he retained full confidence in Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair.

"Once again let me say that we offer our deepest regrets to the family for this very tragic event and I of course assured the President that the proper investigations and procedures would continue through to their conclusion," Mr Blair said at a Downing Street press conference.

 

 

 


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Reply with quote  #49 


Some further archive material from an American based website, that throws up how police complaints should be dealt with by a Court of Law and not under a veil of secrecy with the police investigating themselves.

image: [ Sir Paul Condon admitted he had corrupt police in his force ]
New moves to weed out corrupt police officers
Allegations of corruption and dishonesty against police will be handled more quickly under proposals announced by MPs.

The changes to the disciplinary system would make it easier to sack or discipline police officers found guilty of misconduct.

If the Government backs the Home Affairs Select Committee's recommendations, major changes in the police complaints procedure are likely.


[ image: width=150]

The committee chairman, Labour MP Chris Mullin, said: "Over the last few years the police disciplinary system has become virtually paralysed.

"There is no doubt that a small minority of officers ... have effectively subverted the system by exploiting every conceivable loophole."

The committee also advised senior management in the police to make "more robust use" of the powers they already have.

Proposals aimed at restoring public confidence

Among those who gave evidence to the select committee was the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Paul Condon.


[ image: width=150]

He said a minority of corrupt officers within his force was sapping the morale of colleagues.

The committee's proposals are aimed at halting the damage this causes to public confidence.

The core of its recommendations is a reduction in the burden of proof needed to find police guilty of misconduct.

It suggests replacing the criminal standard of "beyond reasonable doubt" with a decision taken "on the balance of probabilities", speeding up disciplinary procedures.

The committee also wants rules to be tightened to stop officers under suspicion from wriggling out of hearings by claiming illness.

The report highlights the case of Detective Sergeant Tom Bradley who was suspended for alleged moonlighting.

He avoided disciplinary hearings against him by retiring on the grounds of ill health.

Inquiries 'should be moved'

The committee's final recommendation is that police investigations should be moved outside the police system.


[ image: width=150]

Civil liberties groups emphasised this as the key point to come out of any reform of the police complaints system.

Both the Police Complaints Authority and the Association of Chief Police Officers welcomed the report.

ACPO president, West Mercia chief Constable David Blakey, said: "The overwhelming majority of police officers have nothing to fear from these proposals and will be pleased that, if they are implemented, the tiny minority of wrongdoers in the service will be able to be dealt with more effectively."

The Police Superintendents Association of England and Wales, while agreeing with most of the report, objected to the new lower standard of proof for serious cases, claiming the change could leave officers exposed to "malicious complaints."

It also opposed the committee's proposal to make final reports written by investigating officers public.

Mike Bennett, the Chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, the policeman's union, said that corruption should be dealt with in the courts, not through disciplinary procedures.


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hammer6

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Reply with quote  #50 

At least south of the boarder we have agencies set up to tackle this issue but as yet Scotland has to admit its existence first then try and remedy the problem not act like an OSTRICH!


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Reply with quote  #51 

Admin fully concurs with Moderator in that Scotland does indeed need an independent agency to investigate issues within the system, and that in order to solve a problem, one must first admit to having a problem.  As we are all fully aware, Scotland's system, as a whole, has a major problem, but will they ever admit to it? 


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Reply with quote  #52 

That is why there can never be anything trustworthy by sending a bunch of corrupt police to investigate another police force!

 

Nat Fraser is serving a life sentence based on a police rent-a-witness scheme! We feel that Reg McKay's book 'Murdered or Missing' tells a compelling story that has now been verified by the CROWN that information was withheld from the defence team! Bloody disgrace.

 

When is Scotland going to fall in line with the way in which police investigations are handled South of the Border?  Is that because they have still to face up to the fact that there is police corruption and is alive and well as you read this post.

 

Although the IPCC is not truly an independent body as such, the mere fact of its existence is an acknowledgment that police corruption South of the Border must be seen and accepted before it can be remedied.


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Reply with quote  #53 

Lets face the REAL facts here : In EVERY city, town or village there is POLICE CORRUPTION and That is only in Scotland as there seems to be more of an acceptance as a PAST way of policing and are now focusing or attempting to monitor criminal acts by the police down south than in our own backyard!

 

Here in Scotland we still have the same problems although they do dress it up with wonderful words like: Honest mistake, wrongdoing, an untruth and finally I swear by almighty God............................. all pish of course its POLICE CORRUPTION!


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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL1

 

Here in Scotland we still have the same problems although they do dress it up with wonderful words like: Honest mistake, wrongdoing, an untruth and finally I swear by almighty God............................. all pish of course its POLICE CORRUPTION!

 

Hi REAL1... thanks for your post.  Admin fully concurs with the statement you made in your above post.  They can call it what they like - which they do - and they can get away with it.  But I hope that one day, they are exposed for the liars that they are, and I sincerely hope that they at least have the decency to be bloody ashamed of themselves, when the truth does come out.  Which it will.  It always does.


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Reply with quote  #55 

Hi Admin I hope the following link will be of interest to other members in relation to a UK problem although we must start the debate right here in STRATHCLYDE.

 

http://www.innocent.org.uk

 

 

 

And thank you for the reply and I'm off to surf now.


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Reply with quote  #56 

Hi REAL1... thanks for your post and the heads up on the link in your previous post.  I'll be sure to check it out, as I hope other members will too, and as for your comment regarding them starting with Strathclyde, you're bloody right on that one.


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Reply with quote  #57 

POLICE CORRUPTION NORTH OF THE BOARDER is also alive and well and still conspiring to commit criminal conspiracies just look at the succession of APPEALS at least more per head per population here in Scotland and it will get worse before it gets better!

 

INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIONS into POLICE CORRUPTION is a MUST not just an IDEA so get your finger out.


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Reply with quote  #58 

Here is some more news that is of particular interest................

de Menezes murder: Police Lies Unravelling....

The Observer | Focus | Death in Stockwell: the unanswered questions

If the police thought de Menezes was dangerous - perhaps a bomber - the fact that he was already in the station would have heightened tension and increased the chances of something going wrong.

Evidence of this hold-up should have been provided by CCTV footage from dozens of cameras covering the Stockwell ticket hall, escalators, platforms and train carriages.

However, police now say most of the cameras were not working.

Why is there no CCTV footage?

Cameras at Stockwell tube should have provided footage of the ticket halls, the escalators and the platforms. Most modern tube carriages also have cameras inside. Yet police say none of the cameras at Stockwell was working at the time of the shooting. This is despite London being on high alert and tube bosses being only too well aware of the importance of maintaining CCTV systems.

This was reported by the Observer on August 14.  Now, ITV is shocking Britain with the truth…

Menezes2

This police photo shows the Brazilian student Jean Charles Menezes, who was shot and killed by armed officers at Stockwell underground station, in south London. Photograph: ITV

From Lenin's Tomb:

CCTV footage, which the police said wasn't working on the day, shows him entering the tube station, walking along normally, picking up a Metro (I imagine), using his Oyster card to go through the gates, walking across the concourse, walking down the stairs. If he ran, they decided, he would be shot. It is reported, again, that they did not identify themselves. He saw a tube arriving, and ran to catch it - as everyone does - and was shot.  He didn't even know he was being pursued.

1) On the day, a senior firearms officer had said that if they had the opportunity to challenge anyone emerging from the block of flats, and there was non-compliance, it would be appropriate to intervene with a fatal shot.

2) No subject coming out of the address should be allowed to run. (Incidentally, the only reason the address was identified was because one of the would-be bombers of 21/7 had the address of a gymnasium there in his bag).

3) De Menezes was observed, after the intelligence officer had finished taking his piss, walking to the bus station in his blue denim jacket, carrying no bags. His description and demeanour were noted, and it was agreed that he matched the profile of an alleged suicide bomber. How?  ("Mongolian eyes", I suppose).

4) Gold Command, on the basis of this, gave the okay to shoot-to-kill.

5) Having taken the bus from Tulse Hill to Stockwell, he walked to the tube station, entered at "walking pace", picked up a Metro, and walked through the ticket gates with his Oyster card. He walked across the concourse and began "slowly descending" the escalator steps.

6) He only ran to catch the tube as it arrived, entered the carriage, looked right and left, then took a seat facing the platform.

7) Here is where it gets strange. He is supposed to have been shot after having been chased and wrestled to the floor. But an intelligence officer's statement says he followed Menezes down the stairs and onto the tube. He was apparently beckoned by police, who did at that point identify themselves. "He stood, and walked towards me", the intelligence officer said. He grabbed Menezes, pulled his arms behind his back and pushed him back into the seat. "I heard a shot in my left ear". The intelligence officer said he was pushed to the floor at that point. A number of officers shot him in the head, seven times. Three bullets missed. One went into his shoulder.

 

 

 

 


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Reply with quote  #59 

The Times March 18, 2006

Now Blair may face a libel action

By Stewart Tendler

 

Metropolitan Police Commissioner in dispute with a deputy over events after Brazilian's shooting SCOTLAND YARD was thrown into further disarray yesterday after one of its most senior officers threatened to sue Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, over the aftermath of the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes.

 

Brian Paddick, a deputy .assistant commissioner and the most senior gay officer in the country, consulted his lawyer after comments by Scotland Yard about evidence that he gave on the shooting to the Inde.pendent Police Complaints Commission. The dispute with Mr Paddick comes as the force carries out a confidential leak inquiry to trace another officer who is suspected of passing on information that Sir Ian had secretly recorded telephone conversations with the commission and Lord Goldsmith, QC, the Attorney-General.

 

The commission is investigating a complaint from the family of Mr de Menezes, who was shot dead last July in a botched counter-terrorist operation, about what Sir Ian and his staff said about the shooting. The commissioner maintains that he was not told that Mr de Menezes was innocent until mid-morning on the day after the shooting.

 

Mr Paddick has made a statement to the complaints commission saying that he believes a middle-ranking officer in the commissioner’s private office knew six hours after the shooting that the Brazilian had no connection with terrorism. On Thursday Scotland Yard .issued a statement saying that the claim was untrue, which led Mr Paddick to seek legal advice on libel. In a twist to the row, it emerged yesterday that Mr Paddick is himself facing a disciplinary inquiry by Scotland Yard watchdogs over an allegation that he revealed confidential information to a journalist.

 

The alleged breached of confidence has no connection with the evidence given to the commission. A junior officer rang a police whistleblower’s line to say that he overheard a mobile phone conversation by Mr Paddick last month that appeared “improper”. Mr Paddick has been asked to send the Metropolitan Police Authority, which deals with the discipline of top officers, an explanation for the call. Yesterday Mr Paddick, who is the second in command of beat policing across London, would confirm only that he had seen his lawyer about Scotland Yard comments. Last year he was one of the senior officers who to head the force’s public response to the July 7 bombings, appearing at press conferences to reassure the public and to comment on developments.

 

 Today, in a letter to The Times, Sir Ian denies that Scotland Yard was in “chaos” in the hours after the shooting. He writes: “This was a very busy, difficult, and fast moving day as we faced what was probably the greatest operational test in the Met’s history.” He adds: “The events of last July provided the Met with nique challenges and unparalleled learning opportunities to which we have already responded.” But one Metropolitan Police Authority member of the MPA is calling for Sir Ian to go on holiday until the complaintscommission has finished looking at events after the shooting.

 

 Damian Hockney said: “Other MPA members have suggested to me that it may be time for Sir Ian to take a period of leave to allow matters to settle.” He added: “I support this suggestion: irrespective of where the blame lies, this matter has become personalised and Sir Ian is seen to be the issue.”

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Reply with quote  #60 

Hi hammer6 & Magpie... thank you both for the excellent and very enlightening posts with regards to the tragic shooting of Charles Menezes.  An unnecessary death, and the anguish that his poor family has been left to deal with not only disgusts me, but angers me too.  I certainly hope Mr Ian Blair does face libel action over this case, and his his family get the justice they deserve. 


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