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hammer6

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The following are declassified excerpts from the April 2006 National Intelligence Estimate on Trends in Global Terrorism released on Tuesday 26 September 2006.

The excerpts were selected by the office of US Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte. Subheadings have been added by the BBC.

United States-led counterterrorism efforts have seriously damaged the leadership of al-Qaeda and disrupted its operations; however, we judge that al-Qaeda will continue to pose the greatest threat to the Homeland and US interests abroad by a single terrorist organization.

We also assess that the global jihadist movement - which includes al-Qaeda, affiliated and independent terrorist groups, and emerging networks and cells - is spreading and adapting to counterterrorism efforts.

Although we cannot measure the extent of the spread with precision, a large body of all-source reporting indicates that activists identifying themselves as jihadists, although a small percentage of Muslims, are increasing in both number and geographic dispersion.

If this trend continues, threats to US interests at home and abroad will become more diverse, leading to increasing attacks worldwide.

Greater pluralism and more responsive political systems in Muslim majority nations would alleviate some of the grievances jihadists exploit. Over time, such progress, together with sustained, multifaceted programs targeting the vulnerabilities of the jihadist movement and continued pressure on al-Qaeda, could erode support for the jihadists.

'Diffuse'

We assess that the global jihadist movement is decentralized, lacks a coherent global strategy, and is becoming more diffuse. New jihadist networks and cells, with anti- American agendas, are increasingly likely to emerge. The confluence of shared purpose and dispersed actors will make it harder to find and undermine jihadist groups.

We assess that the operational threat from self-radicalized cells will grow in importance to US counterterrorism efforts, particularly abroad but also in the Homeland.

The jihadists regard Europe as an important venue for attacking Western interests. Extremist networks inside the extensive Muslim diasporas in Europe facilitate recruitment and staging for urban attacks, as illustrated by the 2004 Madrid and 2005 London bombings.

Iraq

We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the struggle elsewhere.

The Iraq conflict has become the "cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.

We assess that the underlying factors fuelling the spread of the movement outweigh its vulnerabilities and are likely to do so for the duration of the timeframe of this estimate.

Four underlying factors are fuelling the spread of the jihadist movement: (1) Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness; (2) the Iraq .jihad;. (3) the slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, and political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and (4) pervasive anti-US sentiment among most Muslims, all of which jihadists exploit.

'Slow the spread'

Concomitant vulnerabilities in the jihadist movement have emerged that, if fully exposed and exploited, could begin to slow the spread of the movement. They include dependence on the continuation of Muslim-related conflicts, the limited appeal of the jihadists' radical ideology, the emergence of respected voices of moderation, and criticism of the violent tactics employed against mostly Muslim citizens.

The jihadists' greatest vulnerability is that their ultimate political solution - an ultra-conservative interpretation of Sharia-based governance spanning the Muslim world is unpopular with the vast majority of Muslims. Exposing the religious and political straitjacket that is implied by the jihadists' propaganda would help to divide them from the audiences they seek to persuade.

Recent condemnations of violence and extremist religious interpretations by a few notable Muslim clerics signal a trend that could facilitate the growth of a constructive alternative to jihadist ideology: peaceful political activism. This also could lead to the consistent and dynamic participation of broader Muslim communities in rejecting violence, reducing the ability of radicals to capitalize on passive community support. In this way, the Muslim mainstream emerges as the most powerful weapon in the war on terror.

Countering the spread of the jihadist movement will require coordinated multilateral efforts that go well beyond operations to capture or kill terrorist leaders.

'Exploit'

If democratic reform efforts in Muslim majority nations progress over the next five years, political participation probably would drive a wedge between intransigent extremists and groups willing to use the political process to achieve their local objectives. Nonetheless, attendant reforms and potentially destabilizing transitions will create new opportunities for jihadists to exploit.

Al-Qaeda, now merged with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's network, is exploiting the situation in Iraq to attract new recruits and donors and to maintain its leadership role.

The loss of key leaders, particularly Osama Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and al-Zarqawi, in rapid succession, probably would cause the group to fracture into smaller groups. Although like-minded individuals would endeavour to carry on the mission, the loss of these key leaders would exacerbate strains and disagreements. We assess that the resulting splinter groups would, at least for a time, pose a less serious threat to US interests than does al-Qaeda.

Should al-Zarqawi continue to evade capture and scale back attacks against Muslims, we assess he could broaden his popular appeal and present a global threat.

The increased role of Iraqis in managing the operations of al-Qaeda in Iraq might lead veteran foreign jihadists to focus their efforts on external operations.

Other groups

Other affiliated Sunni extremist organizations, such as Jemaah Islamiya, Ansar al-Sunnah, and several North African groups, unless countered, are likely to expand their reach and become more capable of multiple and/or mass-casualty attacks outside their traditional areas of operation.

We assess that such groups pose less of a danger to the Homeland than does al-Qaeda but will pose varying degrees of threat to our allies and to US interests abroad. The focus of their attacks is likely to ebb and flow between local regime targets and regional or global ones.

We judge that most jihadist groups - both well-known and newly formed - will use improvised explosive devices and suicide attacks focused primarily on soft targets to implement their asymmetric warfare strategy, and that they will attempt to conduct sustained terrorist attacks in urban environments. Fighters with experience in Iraq are a potential source of leadership for jihadists pursuing these tactics.

CBRN capabilities will continue to be sought by jihadist groups. While Iran, and to a lesser extent Syria, remain the most active state sponsors of terrorism, many other states will be unable to prevent territory or resources from being exploited by terrorists.

Internet

Anti-US and anti-globalization sentiment is on the rise and fuelling other radical ideologies. This could prompt some leftist, nationalist, or separatist groups to adopt terrorist methods to attack US interests. The radicalization process is occurring more quickly, more widely, and more anonymously in the Internet age, raising the likelihood of surprise attacks by unknown groups whose members and supporters may be difficult to pinpoint.

We judge that groups of all stripes will increasingly use the Internet to communicate, propagandize, recruit, train, and obtain logistical and financial support.


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Reply with quote  #47 
29 September 2006
JOIN US AND KILL THEM WITH NUCLEAR BOMBS...

AL-QAEDA'S new leader in Iraq has called for nuclear scientists to help him kill Westerners with dirty bombs.

Abu Ayyub al-Masri's chilling appeal was made in a 20-minute audio message posted on a website yesterday.

The terror chief said he wants scientists - especially nuclear and explosives experts - to join his "holy war".

He added: "We are in dire need of you.

"The field of jihad (holy war) can satisfy your scientific ambitions.

"The large American bases (in Iraq) are good places to test your unconventional weapons, whether biological or dirty, as they call them."

Al-Masri also revealed 4000 foreign insurgents had been killed in Iraq since the US-led invasion in 2003.

His predecessor, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was killed in an American airstrike north of Baghdad in June.

Al-Masri offered an "amnesty" to Iraqis who cooperated with their country's "occupiers". He called on them to "return to your religion and nation" during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which began last weekend.

He said: "We will not attack you as long as you declare your true repentance in front of your tribe and relatives ... and put your hands in the hands of your holy warrior brothers and sons in order for security to be restored in our land.

"The amnesty ends by the end of this holy month."

Al-Masri urged insurgents in Iraq to capture as many Westerners as they could during Ramadan.

This would "enable us to capture some of theWestern dogs to swap them with our sheik and get him out of his dark prison".

He was referring to the blind Egyptian sheik Omar Abdel- Rahman, imprisoned in the United States since 1995 for conspiring to blow up New York City landmarks.

Al-Masri added: "I ask God to make it a month for honour and victory forMuslims."

Last week, he appeared in a web video apparently showing him executing a Turkish hostage in Iraq.

The footage was first released in 2004, when al-Zarqawi headed the group.


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Reply with quote  #48 
4 October 2006
NORTH KOREA NUKE THREAT...

NORTH Korea triggered alarm yesterday by saying it will conduct a nuclear test.

The foreign ministry said North Korea "will in the future conduct a nuclear test in a condition where safety is guaranteed".

But the statement also said it wanted to "settle hostile relations" between the North and the US.

Some experts believe the North has enough radioactive material to build half a dozen or more nuclear bombs.

A US state department spokesman said: "A North Korea test would pose an unacceptable threat to peace in Asia and the world."

Until last summer, North Korea was involved in talks with Japan, South Korea, the US, China and Russia aimed at ending their nuclear programme.


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Reply with quote  #49 
The North Koreans pose as much if not more of a threat to the Western world than Al Qaeda ever could. Within the next 3-5 years Bilko sees the North Koreans as being the major threat to world peace. Bilko
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Hi Bilko,

 

I agree in part that North Korea will pose the biggest threat in the near future although I have to say that Iran (We will wipe Israel off the face of the map) is extremely worrying.

 

The North Koreans have yet to utter such threats (Openly anyway) and claim they are using their nuclear weapons as a deterrent (So far).

 

A dangerous scenario would be that if the North Korean's give tactical and scientific (Or even weapons) to Iran they would carry out their threat.

 

In response Israel would counter attack and the WHOLE of the middle east would suffer from the fallout.

 

Dangerous times indeed Bilko.


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Reply with quote  #51 

Good points Hammer6....also bare in mind China are North Korea's closest Allies, throw them into the mix and add the US sticking their nose in and its a MAJOR problem.  Bilko


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Reply with quote  #52 

Yip, VERY BIG problems ahead if and when they ALL join their own Global policing like the US & others.

 

 


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China's 'nightmare scenario'
By Dan Griffiths
BBC News, Beijing

A Chinese paramilitary officer walks past the portraits of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il and his late father Kim Il-sung outside the North Korean embassy in Beijing
China's suspicion of North Korea is growing

A North Korean nuclear test has long been a nightmare scenario for China.

Beijing is one of the North's few remaining allies, and a major supplier of energy and financial aid to the secretive regime in Pyongyang.

China wants stability on the Korean peninsula; the last thing it wanted was an international crisis right on its doorstep.

It has condemned the claimed test on Monday, saying it resolutely opposes North Korea's actions, and that the test has damaged relations between the two countries.

That anger is also mixed with embarrassment, because Beijing repeatedly urged the North Koreans to abandon their plans for a test.

The fact that the North went ahead regardless appears to be an indication that there are limits to the influence that China's leaders have in Pyongyang.

Balancing act

But the situation is more complex than that. China fears that if it uses what leverage it does have, by stopping aid to North Korea, the regime in Pyongyang might collapse.

That could send a flood of refugees over the border into China - something that Beijing wants to avoid at all costs.

Chiense woman looking over the border into North Korea

So China is reluctant to use the powers it has, worrying about the possible consequences of pulling the plug on Pyongyang.

The resultant limits to what Beijing can achieve were demonstrated earlier this year, when North Korea carried out a series of missile tests despite Chinese pleas not to go ahead.

Beijing condemned the tests and approved a UN Security Council resolution imposing weapons-related sanctions on North Korea.

But despite international pressure, it did not cut aid to North Korea, preferring to work through multi-national institutions.

China has repeatedly urged North Korea to return to the six-nation disarmament talks involving the two Koreas, Japan, China, Russia and the US.

But those discussions broke down last year, and the nuclear test means any speedy resumption is unlikely.

That leaves many observers wondering how China will respond this time.

What next?

Beijing has already said that the UN Security Council must take what it has called "appropriate action" against North Korea.

So far, though, China says it is still considering what exactly that response should be.

There is little doubt that Beijing will be in regular contact with other countries in the region - especially South Korea and Japan - as well as the US.

They will be working together on a unified response to the test, that will then go to the UN Security Council.

There's likely to be considerable negotiating in the days ahead, as the various countries involved try to reach a resolution that will be acceptable to everyone.

In the past China has always opposed tough international action against North Korea.

But there is no doubt that Beijing is extremely angry about this nuclear test - and Pyongyang may be about to find out that there are limits to China's patience.


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Reply with quote  #54 

If the Chinese are THAT scared they are the only ones who can nip this in the bud before it escalates much further. North Korea depends on the Chinese supply of food and other essentials for the country to survive. Some countries have already promised an embargo on supplies going to North Korea, Australia for one has ceased all connections with North Korea. The Chinese though are the only ones who can place serious pressure on the North Korean dictatorship to end this nuclear experimentation.

 

I just hope that the Americans do not go in heavy handed as they did with Saddam. It's ironic don't you think? America invaded Iran because it 'thought'  they were developing nuclear weapons...Now that North Korea has openly admitted and shown it has nuclear weapons the Americans are talking embargo's. Maybe North Korea has no oil reserves huh? Hmmmmm. Bilko


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North Korea's second most powerful leader Kim Yong-nam
North Korea's number two leader warns of more nuclear tests if US policy remains "hostile", reports say.


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North Korean soldiers patrolling the border with China
Agreement on a UN resolution imposing sanctions on North Korea is "very close," says the US envoy at the UN.


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North Korea's leader Kim Jong-il (18 January 2006)
A Chinese envoy meets North Korea's reclusive leader amid international efforts to stop another nuclear test.


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The evolving threat of al-Qaeda
By Gordon Corera
BBC security correspondent

Osama bin Laden with followers
Security officials believe the al-Qaeda leadership has regrouped
In recent years, the notion of al-Qaeda as a decentralised organisation - a group that inspires attacks rather than organising and planning them itself - has gained common currency.

But now senior counter-terrorist officials have told the BBC that they have seen evidence that this is no longer the case and that the threat has evolved.

It is believed that al-Qaeda has in fact regrouped in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border region and now poses a more direct threat, particularly to the UK.

Its communication channels and training facilities, which were heavily disrupted after the fall of the Taleban in Afghanistan, have been rebuilt and it is once more able to recruit members, communicate internationally and direct attacks.

New recruits are carefully selected and go through a process of indoctrination
Officials also believe that the close connections between communities in the UK and Pakistan mean that even though al-Qaeda would also like to attack the United States and other countries, the UK is likely to be the primary target because of the volume of travel and contact between the two countries.

There were 400,000 visits by UK residents to Pakistan in 2004 and a very small number of those are thought to have involved trips to training camps linked to al-Qaeda.

New recruits are carefully selected and go through a process of indoctrination.

They go on to form organised, self-contained cells which bear some similarities in their structure to those formed by the Provisional IRA in the past.

What concerns the authorities is the ease with which those who either drop out or are arrested can be replaced by other willing recruits

Different individuals will have different functions, often with one person acting as an overall leader and another in charge of getting hold of weapons or bomb-making.

In addition, there will be a number of foot-soldiers.

What concerns the authorities is the ease with which those who either drop out or are arrested can be replaced by other willing recruits.

The cat and mouse game between the authorities and these groups is also becoming increasingly complex.

The cells are increasingly aware of the attempts by authorities to conduct surveillance activity and are becoming increasingly sophisticated in their attempts to evade eavesdropping.

This often involves conducting conversations in public spaces and other methods, again used by Irish Republican groups in the past.

Both the volume of activity and its increased sophistication has made officials worry that the 7/7 bombings last year may simply have been the start of what could be a prolonged campaign.


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are they dancing in the streets now?
Reader comment on article: Did It Change Us? 9/11, five years later.

Submitted by Donald O, Sep 11, 2006 at 22:42

yes, we heard the bells go off like clockwork to commemorate the time each attack was struck and the tireless mini-documentaries for 9/11 til we're blue in the face with it...

But did we hear of the same time [5 years ago] when they [the peaceful ones] began to dance in their streets and celebrate with joy when the news reached their neighborhoods?

No, just a slight oversight eh? Just trying to be fair. After all, they are the fastest growing religion inthe USA. I think the USA is still sleeping and will needs a few more 9/11's before they really wake up. Sorry to say.


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Terror Expert: London Bombings Mastermind is MI6 Asset
Group was used by Brits in Kosovo in the late 90s.

 


The Dud Bombers of 21/7, the patsies, have all been rounded up along with 18 others currently under questioning, yet the so called "mastermind" is allowed to go free and is protected time and time again by MI5, MI6, FBI and CIA. The same thing happened in 93 with the WTC bombing, 95 with the OKC bombing, 01 with 911 and its happening again, its the same type of operation EVERYTIME.

RELATED:

Explosions In London

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The July 29 edition of FOX News Channel's Day Side programme revealed that the so called mastermind of the 7/7 London Bombings, Haroon Rashid Aswat, is a British Intelligence Asset. Former Justice Dept. prosecutor and Terror expert John Loftus revealed that the so called Al-Muhajiroun group, based in London had formed during the Kosovo crisis, during which Fundamentalist Muslim Leaders (Or what is now referred to as Al Qaeda) were recruited by MI6 to fight in Kosovo.

Loftus stated that "...back in the late 1990s, the leaders all worked for British intelligence in Kosovo. Believe it or not, British intelligence actually hired some Al-Qaeda guys to help defend the Muslim rights in Albania and in Kosovo. That's when Al-Muhajiroun got started."

We have previously revealed how former MI5 officer David Shayler has alleged, and French intel sources have corroborated, that the MI6 paid a Libyan al-Qa'ida cell £100,000 in 1995 to assassinate colonel Qaddafi. The use of the group that has come to be known as "Al Qaeda" as assets by Intelligence services the world over is well documented.

The London Independent also reported 2 days before the London Bombings how MI5 has previously used so called Al Qaeda operatives as informants, allowing them to be left alone as a trade off.

This only came to light when Bisher al-Rawi was captured by the CIA and taken to the detention centre at Guantanamo Bay. The original Independent link has now mysteriously been removed.

John Loftus went on to spell out that British Intelligence and the US dept of Justice had protected Haroon Rashid Aswat: "Back in 1999 he came to America. The Justice Department wanted to indict him in Seattle because him and his buddy were trying to set up a terrorist training school in Oregon... we've just learned that the headquarters of the US Justice Department ordered the Seattle prosecutors not to touch Aswat... , apparently Aswat was working for British intelligence"

Haroon Aswat, the so called mastermind of the London bombings with Radical cleric Abu Hamza al Masri in a London cab on Jan. 20, 1999.

This information is startling and again highlights how Al Qaeda exists as an organized body only where the intelligence services have created, funded and employed it. Loftus points out that several weeks before the London Bombings, Aswat was again located by the South African Intel agency but again allowed to slip away, this time to London:

"He was a British intelligence plant. So all of a sudden he disappears. He's in South Africa. We think he's dead; we don't know he's down there. Last month the South African Secret Service come across the guy. He's alive...the Brits know that the CIA wants to get a hold of Haroon. So what happens? He takes off again, goes right to London. He isn't arrested when he lands, he isn't arrested when he leaves... He's on the watch list. The only reason he could get away with that was if he was working for British intelligence. He was a wanted man."

Loftus' information is backed up by the New York Times and CNN who reported on this incident also.

We have seen this many times before and have continued to expose this kind of activity. Mr Aswat is not the only "Al Qaeda operative" who has been protected While in the US - the 19 9/11 hijackers and their associate Zaccharias Moussaoui seem to have been as well. FBI Agent Robert Wright blew the whistle on obstruction of counterterrorism investigations targeting Hamas and al-Qaeda before 911. The sabotage by the highest levels in the FBI of Coleen Rowley's desperate attempt to investigate Moussaoui, for instance, is a striking parallel to the "hands-off" order regarding Aswat, and it's far from being the only one. The CIA met with Bin Laden in July 2001 in a Dubai hospital where he was being treated for Kidney problems. They gleaned detailed information regarding possible massive terror attacks on the US, yet Bin Laden was allowed to slip away (either that or he passed away). Bin Laden is or was a known CIA Asset.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mysteriously arrested as the alleged mastermind behind the September 11 plot, was granted a visa to enter the US just six weeks before the terrorist attacks in Washington and New York. The American Al Qaeda operative, Iyman Faris, who planned to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge was also revealed to be an FBI operative. We also have several other reports staing how the men used as hijackers on the planes on 911 were monitored before the event and allowed to enter the US. They were even trained at US flight schools.

After 911 these so called terrorists have been allowed to go on with business as usual, despite the "war on terror" and in many instances have been protected. It seems that the authorities find it more useful to restrict the liberties of law abiding citizens by introducing draconian restrictive laws such as the Patriot act and Free speech zoning, whilst allowing those they label as terrorists to go undetected.

Haroon Rashid Aswat allegedly left London for Pakistan on July 6, one day before the London bombing. He was then arrested in Pakistan, but released AGAIN within 24 hours. He reportedly traveled to Zimbabwe and then Zambia, where he may have been arrested again (conflicting reports). Why does the so called mastermind of 7/7 keep being released and allowed to slip away? It the same type of operation over and over again.


FULL TRANSCRIPT: The July 29 edition of FOX News Channel's Day Side programme:

MIKE JERRICK [FOX NEWS]: John Loftus is a terrorism expert and a former prosecutor for the Justice Department. John, good to see you again. So real quickly here, have you heard anything about this Osman Hussain who was just picked up in Rome? You know that name at all?

JOHN LOFTUS: Yeah, all these guys should be going back to an organization called Al-Muhajiroun, which means The Emigrants. It was the recruiting arm of Al-Qaeda in London; they specialized in recruiting kids whose families had emigrated to Britain but who had British passports. And they would use them for terrorist work.

JERRICK: So a couple of them now have Somali connections?

LOFTUS: Yeah, it was not unusual. Somalia, Eritrea, the first group of course were primarily Pakistani. But what they had in common was they were all emigrant groups in Britain, recruited by this Al-Muhajiroun group. They were headed by the, Captain Hook, the imam in London the Finsbury Mosque, without the arm. He was the head of that organization. Now his assistant was a guy named Aswat, Haroon Rashid Aswat.

JERRICK: Aswat, who they picked up.

LOFTUS: Right, Aswat is believed to be the mastermind of all the bombings in London.

JERRICK: On 7/7 and 7/21, this is the guy we think.

LOFTUS: This is the guy, and what's really embarrassing is that the entire British police are out chasing him, and one wing of the British government, MI6 or the British Secret Service, has been hiding him. And this has been a real source of contention between the CIA, the Justice Department, and Britain.

JERRICK: MI6 has been hiding him. Are you saying that he has been working for them?

LOFTUS: Oh I'm not saying it. This is what the Muslim sheik said in an interview in a British newspaper back in 2001.

JERRICK: So he's a double agent, or was?

LOFTUS: He's a double agent.

JERRICK: So he's working for the Brits to try to give them information about Al-Qaeda, but in reality he's still an Al-Qaeda operative.

LOFTUS: Yeah. The CIA and the Israelis all accused MI6 of letting all these terrorists live in London not because they're getting Al-Qaeda information, but for appeasement. It was one of those you leave us alone, we leave you alone kind of things.

JERRICK: Well we left him alone too long then.

LOFTUS: Absolutely. Now we knew about this guy Aswat. Back in 1999 he came to America. The Justice Department wanted to indict him in Seattle because him and his buddy were trying to set up a terrorist training school in Oregon.

JERRICK: So they indicted his buddy, right? But why didn't they indict him?

LOFTUS: Well it comes out, we've just learned that the headquarters of the US Justice Department ordered the Seattle prosecutors not to touch Aswat.

JERRICK: Hello? Now hold on, why?

LOFTUS: Well, apparently Aswat was working for British intelligence. Now Aswat's boss, the one-armed Captain Hook, he gets indicted two years later. So the guy above him and below him get indicted, but not Aswat. Now there's a split of opinion within US intelligence. Some people say that the British intelligence fibbed to us. They told us that Aswat was dead, and that's why the New York group dropped the case. That's not what most of the Justice Department thinks. They think that it was just again covering up for this very publicly affiliated guy with Al-Muhajiroun. He was a British intelligence plant. So all of a sudden he disappears. He's in South Africa. We think he's dead; we don't know he's down there. Last month the South African Secret Service come across the guy. He's alive.

JERRICK: Yeah, now the CIA says, oh he's alive. Our CIA says OK let's arrest him. But the Brits say no again?

LOTFUS: The Brits say no. Now at this point, two weeks ago, the Brits know that the CIA wants to get a hold of Haroon. So what happens? He takes off again, goes right to London. He isn't arrested when he lands, he isn't arrested when he leaves.

JERRICK: Even though he's on a watch list.

LOFTUS: He's on the watch list.The only reason he could get away with that was if he was working for British intelligence. He was a wanted man.

JERRICK: And then takes off the day before the bombings, I understand it--

LOFTUS: And goes to Pakistan.

JERRICK: And Pakistan, they jail him.

LOFTUS: The Pakistanis arrest him. They jail him. He's released within 24 hours. Back to Southern Africa, goes to Zimbabwe and is arrested in Zambia. Now the US--

JERRICK: Trying to get across the--

LOFTUS: --we're trying to get our hands on this guy.

JERRICK: John, hang around. I have so many questions now.

LOFTUS: Oh, this is a bad one....

[commercial break]

JERRICK: On the phone with us, Mansoor Ijaz; Mansoor you know very well here at Fox News Channel and Dayside. Mansoor, real quickly here, you spent so much time in London, you're probably not that as impressed as I am about how fast Scotland Yard has worked on this case. So impressive, so successful. Why?

MANSOOR IJAZ: Well there are two things that a lot of domestic intelligence agencies don't around the world. One is an extraordinarily detailed database of information, and that database is buttressed by the fact that they have these photos, the graphic images of the faces of the people that they were looking for. So it saved them a lot of time when they got the forensic evidence, like fingerprints or other things that indicated where they could actually go find these people. Because remember, there was a lot of data left on the stuff these guys left behind from the failed bombing attack, and that's what helped to really unravel the cell. Now--

JERRICK: I guess--go ahead, Mansoor.

IJAZ: Now I think there's one very important thing that I think everybody needs to know. And that is that the cellular structure that this new breed of Al-Qaeda people have is such that there is not a clear indication that they all knew each other as much as it is that they had some sort of central control still sitting outside of the framework. Whether that's in a foreign country or a place that is removed from Britain and other place in Europe, that's what we're still looking for. But it's very clear now that these cellular structures were operating independent of each other, but with knowledge that something else was in fact planned in the pipeline.

JERRICK: Real quick, Mansoor. In that regard, maybe a ringleader could be this Haroon Aswat. What do you know about him?

IJAZ: Well, he's a pretty bad guy, and I think your previous guest gave the best assessment of who he is. He's the right hand man of the Al-Muhajiroun leader in London, and has been organizing and planning for some time. And I don't want to minimize the effect of the arrest in Rome, because what that indicates is that the cellular structure is elsewhere and we all know that Italy is a big target on their list.

JERRICK: OK, speaking of him, back to the comments by our John Loftus a little while ago. A question from the audience for you, John. Go ahead.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi Mr Loftus. I recently read a book by Morris Dees called The Gathering Storm , and it talks about extremist militia groups in the United States and how they might be manipulated by some people's rhetoric, very similar to Aswat in London. What do you think the US is doing to prevent terrorist attacks on our own soil that happen--

JERRICK: You're worried about it here?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir.

LOFTUS: The US government's doing a great job. We arrested the New York branch of Al-Muhajiroun two years ago. We found the subway bombers with the plans to blow up two different subway stations in New York City. The rest of the group is under surveillance. But the US was used by Al-Muhajiroun for training of people to send to Kosovo. What ties all these cells together was, back in the late 1990s, the leaders all worked for British intelligence in Kosovo. Believe it or not, British intelligence actually hired some Al-Qaeda guys to help defend the Muslim rights in Albania and in Kosovo. That's when Al-Muhajiroun got started.

IJAZ: Which is by the way why we know so much about them right now.

LOFTUS: Yes, I'm afraid so. The CIA was funding the operation to defend the Muslims, British intelligence was doing the hiring and recruiting. Now we have a lot of detail on this because Captain Hook, the head of Al-Muhajiroun, he sidekick was Bakri Mohammed, another cleric. And back on October 16, 2001, he gave a detailed interview with al-Sharq al-Aswat, an Arabic newspaper in London, describing the relationship between British intelligence and the operations in Kosovo and Al-Muhajiroun. So that's how we get all these guys connected. It started in Kosovo, Haroon was 31 years old, he came on about 1995.

JERRICK: OK. Here's another question for you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, John. With the quid-pro-quo relationship that London obviously had with these terrorists early on, what changed that caused them to all of a sudden get away from the you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone situation?

LOFTUS: The Israelis say that the truce went on for years. Guys from Al-Muhajiroun for example would bring suicide bombers to Israel to blow up Mike's Place. There was a definite link there. And yet the trainer, Sadiki Al Kahn, was able to go back to Britain and not be touched. What the Israelis believe happened is that Usama Bin Laden got desperate, and he said burn all our bridges--let's turn on the British. Break the truce, start the bombs.

JERRICK: Speaking of Usama Bin Laden, Mansoor, real quickly, maybe Scotland Yard and those folks over there, the Brits, should be looking for Usama Bin Laden. They seem to be so successful.

LOFTUS: The British police do a remarkable job.

IJAZ: Well, that's an interesting comment. The fact of the matter is, when you're dealing with it in your own backyard, and you have the computer infrastructure set up in such a way that you can immediately track these kinds of things that are in your backyard, it's a very different game from tracking them on places where we don't even have mountain maps any more of how the whole thing looks. So that's really what the fundamental problem is. If you'll permit me, I just want to, Mike, make one other very quick point.

JERRICK: Mansoor, can you hang over, do you have time hang over for a 30-second break here? John Loftus, got to cut you loose but thanks for the info. Boy, interesting stuff John...

[commercial break]

JERRICK: We have some more information from our Mansoor Ijaz, Fox News Foreign Affairs Analyst. Mansoor, still on the phone with me?

IJAZ: Yeah, I'm here with you Mike.

JERRICK: Talk about your information from British intel.

IJAZ: Well, let's not characterize the sources quite that way, but I've talked to some people who are analyzing what came out of the raids today, and there's a great deal of concern about the fact that there may be in fact a desire of these cells to move beyond transit systems as the target. And what specifically they found was evidence that indicates they're looking at now places where there are large collections of people, where they can actually take shopping bags and other large carrying bags of sorts without raising a lot of suspicion. Obviously shopping malls come immediately to mind, but it's important for everybody to know that London was planning on having a large I think it's a City Fair or something like that, I don't know what exactly it's called. They've now decided to go ahead with that, but it's obviously going to be much more scrutinized than it would have been before. Now London doesn't in general have a lot of large shopping malls, but they do have large concentrations of people in places at certain times during the week, and that's what apparently now has become the target, one of the new targets of these terrorist cells.

JERRICK: So Mansoor, when you hear that we have four for four, or four for five of these 7/21 bombers, nobody should fool themselves. This thing isn't over.

IJAZ: That is precisely the point I wanted to make sure everybody understood--that the authorities, the people that are worried about this and that are analyzing the data out of what they're getting in these raids, are basically saying we may have just hit the tip of the iceberg. This is not over by a long shot.

JERRICK: Mansoor, thank you for making that perfectly clear. Talk to you soon.


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